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Does the "5th Way" help YOU release?

As most here know, relatively recently, Hale Dwoskin has been frequently applying what he calls the "5th Way" which seems to be a derivation of a technique found in several disciplines (Advaita, Zen, 'Self Inquiry') which involves looking into your present experience to search for the "I".

There is alot of good word of mouth about this technique on this and other release forums that I've visited.

The technique as Hale describes it has never resonated with me and has rarely assisted with the process of releasing in my personal experience. "I" look into my present experience to find the I. There is nothing there and... so what?

I think it would be potentially very helpful if members who have had success with this technique could share their experience with it.

Thanks!

Warm Regards,

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mário [Hootless Crew] on August 10, 2010 at 3:31am

""I" look into my present experience to find the I. There is nothing there and... so what?"

That's it. That's my experience. If there's nothing there, who cares about the current agflap? You give life to agflap by thinking you are something that has the or that you are the agflap. When you see there's nothing there to own or be the agflap then, as you said, so what?

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Permalink Reply by Per [Hootless crew] on August 10, 2010 at 3:38am

Was just gonna say almost the same thing, the "so what" is what I'm looking for :) It is cool that the answer often lies in the question itself.. For me it is not a technique, but kind of like going beyond technique,

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Permalink Reply by JonnyRich on August 10, 2010 at 6:57am

And this helps you release? Or increase acceptance of what is arising in awareness? Unfortunately I can't say that I've had the same benefit. If anything it even seems pointless.

For example (no pun intended with the following), we can visually observe something (the eye sees), but without going into memory or taking on faith what we see in a mirror, we can't observe the eye that is doing the seeing. That doesn't however mean the eye isn't there.

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Permalink Reply by Tom Verbroekken on August 10, 2010 at 8:13am

You are asking the mind to do it, Jonny - and that will never work. The mind will never "GET" it. So you can tell it to take a step back and go on holidays.

Hale asks, "If you DON'T go into memory (as in, you stay out of there - no thoughts whatsoever), and you keep your attention away from the body...can you find the seperate me here?"

Now, everything...all AGFLAP...is attached to this "me". If there is no seperate you there, then there is no AGFLAP there either. Who does the AGFLAP belong to?

To nothing and no one, because there is no seperate individual there.

This is not something you do intellectually (like you have been doing so far), but something you can only experience.

Another way to experience it is by asking, "Are you?" (As in, are you here right now...which would be a "yes" of course...as you are present here right now). And then asking "Could you allow that to be enough?"

Allow yourself to be.

There's much more to The Fifth Way than that, though. Have you done Triple Welcoming, for instance? Listen to my Skype Support call on Acceptance a couple of weeks ago because I consistently use Triple Welcoming there.

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Permalink Reply by Per [Hootless crew] on August 10, 2010 at 12:25pm

Well for me it is a place where it doesn't matter if I am releasing or not.

Anyway if the 5th way doesn't work for you right now, you will surely benefit from Hale's other 4 ways or Larry's numerous ways! You can always come back to it later. For me the 5th way works best when I am already high and in CAP and ready to go further than that. And as Tom said, triple welcoming is awesome..

JonnyRich said:

And this helps you release? Or increase acceptance of what is arising in awareness? Unfortunately I can't say that I've had the same benefit. If anything it even seems pointless.

For example (no pun intended with the following), we can visually observe something (the eye sees), but without going into memory or taking on faith what we see in a mirror, we can't observe the eye that is doing the seeing. That doesn't however mean the eye isn't there.

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Permalink Reply by JonnyRich on August 10, 2010 at 5:01pm

Firstly, thanks for the replies Mario, Per, and Tom.

I have been using the various releasing techniques for 4-5 years but rarely had any success with the 5th Way (as Hale teaches it) since my purchase of Inner Circle 3 at its release. I also have 4 and 5. I have used 'triple welcoming" although I found a way to do it which is more effective for myself than how Hale teaches it.

Tom, perhaps I am directing the mind to look for it which is something I'll examine.
You wrote "Now, everything...all AGFLAP...is attached to this "me". If there is no seperate you there, then there is no AGFLAP there either. Who does the AGFLAP belong to?" has not been true for my experience. The sensations of AGFLAP still arise whether or not the egoic I persists, what you are just does not engage with them.

The implication is that I have been intellectualizing it (which I'm open to the possibility that it is true to some extent). to clarify, I gave the analogy to better relate my experience, not as an intellectual conclusion.

I look, see nothing, and so what? In no way in my experience does it diminish the engagement with the AGFLAP, just as not being able to find an "eye" does not in my experience diminish engagement with seeing.

Per, thank you, I definitely will and do apply Hale and Larry's other forms of releasing. Since Hale has shifted focus to his 5th Way, I would like to find that perspective helpful. I will follow your example and see how the perspective may change by using the 5th way high in CAP.

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Permalink Reply by Per [Hootless crew] on August 10, 2010 at 5:04pm

OK, I see! Have you tried releasing on that specifically, like for instance doing attachments&aversions on the 5th way, the special release process on the 5th way, or even the 5th way on the 5th way? Just brainstorming here :)

JonnyRich said:

Per, thank you, I definitely will and do apply Hale and Larry's other forms of releasing. Since Hale has shifted focus to his 5th Way, I would like to find that perspective helpful.

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Permalink Reply by JonnyRich on August 10, 2010 at 5:11pm

Per that is an excellent suggestion! I shall do so. How lucky I am to be part of such an excellent community!

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Permalink Reply by Per [Hootless crew] on August 10, 2010 at 5:15pm

Thanks! It just came to mind. Releasing on releasing itself should hopefully prove to be effective :)

JonnyRich said:

Per that is an excellent suggestion! I shall do so. How lucky I am to be part of such an excellent community!

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Permalink Reply by Mário [Hootless Crew] on August 10, 2010 at 7:25pm

Jonny, the thing is that you are asking "Why can't I release with the 5th way?" and the answer is "Because 5th way is not a releasing tool". 5th Way is a tool for you to see that you are not the separate individual you believe you are, a separate individual that owns or is the agflap, the body and thoughts. Releasing might happen as a consequence of seeing that or not. The releasing tool based on the 5th Way is the Triple Welcoming.

"The sensations of AGFLAP still arise whether or not the egoic I persists, what you are just does not engage with them."

That's it, this is correct.

"I look, see nothing, and so what? In no way in my experience does it diminish the engagement with the AGFLAP"

The 5th Way, as I said, is not a releasing tool. Use it for its end, which is to see what you really are, and then the releasing might occur or not. If you want an extra hand to disengage, which seems to be your goal, when noticing the agflap, really notice it, and ask yourself:" Am I this agflap, or am I that which is witnessing/noticing the agflap?". If you look instead of thinking about the answer, a releasing might occur.

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Permalink Reply by Lisa [Hootless Crew] on August 10, 2010 at 10:07pm

Great idea Per, I guess an SRP (Special release process) could be run on any process like the 5th way too.

You know the type of question.

Did the 5th way try to control you or did if feel that way?

Did the 5th way threaten and opose you?

Ha ha - I might do this on processing in general as I have run out of things to do an SRP on right now :)